I have been shopping for diesel trucks for awhile and have noticed three different types of engines in the dodge trucks but don't know which one has any special benefits. The gen II diesels (94-98) have a intercooled 12v engine, gen III diesels (98.5-2002) with an intercooled 24v or the gen IV (2003-current) with a commonrail intercooled 24v engine. As far as the engines go that is all i know and i am not sure which one might be a better choice, in other words which one "should" i buy or does it really matter? 1975 Scout II XLC Has been a member of the family since it was new 304 T18 D20 4 inch lift 33" pro comp mudders
Joined: Saturday May 14 2005 Location: La Habra, CA Posts: 500
Dodge introduced the Cummins in 1989. The '89-'93 trucks are referred to as 1st generation. '94 Introduced a new body style along with an updated injection pump on the engine. '94-'98 [2nd Gen.] 12 valves are often considered to be the most reliable offerings of this engine. Just like any vehicle they have both positives and negatives. '98.5 - '03 [3rd Gen.] also called 24 Valve began using an electronic injection pump. These trucks make good power however can also bring with them some expensive repairs. 2004 to present are the common rail engines. I don't have very much first hand experience with this generation of the cummins. Chris Rock-Tech Offroad - La Habra, CA - 562-690-8321 International Harvester Service and Repair.
the third gen seems kind of peculiar to me, kind of like an in between or whatever you want to call it. with that electronic injection pump kind of makes me think i might as well have a common rail engine. i kind of like the idea of the 2nd gen 12 valve, like an old truck with a crabeurator. 1975 Scout II XLC Has been a member of the family since it was new 304 T18 D20 4 inch lift 33" pro comp mudders
Joined: Thursday December 07 2006 Location: Garden Grove Posts: 1870
Your best bet as of now would be to stay with the 96 or 97 model year dodge truck and wait to see what goes on in Kalifornia regarding smog laws. There are a lot of deals out there right now just depends on what your looking for? Smog laws on these trucks after model year 1998 will start to get real bad since the state is very anti-diesel and trying generate income.... I have attached a draft of part of the smog propositions you can find online. 02 is the last year of the elecronic VP-44 pump and in 03 the trucks had been changed to the common rail motor so keep that in mind when your looking. LINK
My idea is to keep my scout and sell my 68 D200 to find another daily driver. The closer to stock a truck is the better it is to me, under a 100k miles would also be nice. 1975 Scout II XLC Has been a member of the family since it was new 304 T18 D20 4 inch lift 33" pro comp mudders
no preference really, as long as it is not a dually, i would prefer a manual transmission but if i have no luck finding one i am happy with then i would buy an automatic. 1975 Scout II XLC Has been a member of the family since it was new 304 T18 D20 4 inch lift 33" pro comp mudders
would i be better off with a 6 speed or 5 speed manual? 1975 Scout II XLC Has been a member of the family since it was new 304 T18 D20 4 inch lift 33" pro comp mudders
Joined: Monday November 05 2007 Location: buena park Posts: 510
since i own a gen III cummins i have a bias opinion, the common rail makes the most power out of the box though the lift pump is still the weak link (nothing a pusher can't solve)but the injection pump is suberb (sharing the same unit as the Duramax) and capable of 450+hp. The 04+ high output motors have hardend valves and seats with even a stronger block to handle that stock 325hp and 650lb's of torque. Also 04's and later trucks have a more stout auto trans (48re) which utilizes larger input and output shafts but still lacks in the torque converter department. For me the adjustabilty of a programmer is the way to go! like my banks kit I can run the #1 stock setting and my truck runs smoke free at normal power or i can crank the nob (yes an on the fly nob) up to #6 where the motor cranks 400hp and 750 lb's of torque with lots of black smoke! A chip can control you timing, fueling and turbo boost that an older truck would have to be changed later manually if desired. These days you can get a newer truck still under warranty (7 year of 100,000 mile drivetrain on all late dodge trucks) for less than $15,000 if you look hard enough.
[ Edited Wednesday April 08 2009 ] 1978 scout II 345 with 727 and dana 20 transfer case dana 44 front w/456 gears and ARB dana 44 rear w/456 gears and detroit spring under for now with 4" lift springs and 33's 10,000 pound winch in front w/custom bumpers and sliders warn hubs my scout, once ready for a junkyard, now ready for a jeep
Joined: Saturday May 14 2005 Location: La Habra, CA Posts: 500
I've know of an '05 Std. cab, 2wd 3/4 ton for sale. I think it has 55k miles and it's a 6 speed truck. It can be had for less then $15k Chris Rock-Tech Offroad - La Habra, CA - 562-690-8321 International Harvester Service and Repair.
sounds good to me, as long as it is not black, i am at this point probably still a couple months away from a purchase. 1975 Scout II XLC Has been a member of the family since it was new 304 T18 D20 4 inch lift 33" pro comp mudders
Joined: Thursday December 07 2006 Location: Garden Grove Posts: 1870
I would also stay away from black cars since Kalifornia is trying to ban them pretty soon. The second and third gens are nice trucks and have the potential to run a long time with normal use. The programmer features that Pat talkes about are nice when they don't cause a check engine light or other issues with the controls on the new trucks. Most people will not be so happy with their programers when they have to be removed if they don't have a EO number, some are not easy to remove either.....
As I have talked to both a Dodge mechanic and a Cummins mechanic today asking there opinion on this very topic they both advised to stay away from 1998 to 2005 trucks for now. Their advice was to what and see what the state really implements for the new smog laws but both felt that these trucks were going to be targeted for heavy regulation and possible yearly testing.
The Cummins mechanic just advised me that part of the issue is that a lot of trucks have been altered with programers that are traceable and will possibly cause failure issues thru the OBD scan with the state. This has also caused its fair share of factory warranties to be voided as the dealers are performing similar checks. Something to check on when purchasing a used vehicle.
I like all the Dodges and feel they are still the best diesel out there for the dollars spent. Having now done a lot of extensive work on these motors there is a reason I own the 12 valve trucks.... Simplicity!!! I can still work on this at home and they are fun to mess with. Have you checked out what they say on the TDR?
I am not a fan of programmers anyways, to me i want my truck to last 30 years, progarmmers are fun but i am positive that they hurt reliability. My 68 D200 has been a member of the family since it was new when my uncle bought it from karl burger dodge in san diego back in Nov. of 1967 and it is all original. I look at what i need in a truck and they can all be done to my 68 but when i consider that option i think to myself how much easier it would be to just buy another truck. I have found one or two first gen dodge diesel 4x4's and thought of swapping out the driveline into my 68, very cool for sure but i don't know if i would want to drive it everyday when i was done with it. I do like the idea of simplicity and possibilty of running an engine on WVO is also appealing when gas prices go crazy again. 1975 Scout II XLC Has been a member of the family since it was new 304 T18 D20 4 inch lift 33" pro comp mudders
what can people do to the 12v cummions to improve throttle response and seat of the pants feel but not really effect reliability. i figured i would start with an air filter and exhaust but where can i go from there? 1975 Scout II XLC Has been a member of the family since it was new 304 T18 D20 4 inch lift 33" pro comp mudders
Joined: Thursday December 07 2006 Location: Garden Grove Posts: 1870
The basics would be just to do a fuel plate and govenor spring kit and block off the wastegate line to increase boost. This will wake it up nicely and still turn in very good mileage numbers. This is what we have done to Shannon's truck and it turned in dyno numbers at AFE that were very impressive. At the rear wheels 225 Hp and 565Ft Lbs with no smoke and very good highway manners.
The only thing that is commonly done on these motors that does not affect performance but you will hear about frequently is the KDP (Killer Dowel Pin). Once killed you should never need to open the timing cover again unless it's to change the seal at 750,000 miles J/K......
You can also adjust the timing for a little bit of a performance gain but it does also increase the cylinder pressures so it is possibly harder on a older head gasket. The only other item would be a mild set of injectors but that becomes a higher dollar commitment than all the other modifications. Those things really are the most common things done and are very nice for response.
i like the idea of a well tuned motor without a large dollar commitment, i have read about the fuel plate and governer spring but that seems a littls over my head since i have never done it. 1975 Scout II XLC Has been a member of the family since it was new 304 T18 D20 4 inch lift 33" pro comp mudders
Joined: Thursday December 07 2006 Location: Garden Grove Posts: 1870
When your ready to do the fuel plate and govenor springs I have a few friends that are able to do it for minimal costs. I forgot to show you where the tamper proof screw is last night in case you go look at any trucks.....
ya i was gonna ask about that screw thing, when i am ready i will definitely let you know. could you post a pic? 1975 Scout II XLC Has been a member of the family since it was new 304 T18 D20 4 inch lift 33" pro comp mudders
